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Heated discussion on foreign workers and trafficking
08-13-2017, 06:45 AM
Post: #1
Heated discussion on foreign workers and trafficking
Heated discussion on foreign workers and trafficking

Wisdom from a $350/hr very wise Phoenix escort from the Philippines
This started with my post about the Seattle fake trafficking bust of the large review board and reviewers being arrested. She is arguing with Bri who insists foreign workers like the kgirls from the board are being trafficked.

Wise Phoenix escort says:

I am a foreign provider. I was a provider before I came to the US and continue to be a provider since I got here. So allow me give insight to "trafficked sex workers".

Of course there are trafficked sex worker. And of course there are risks being a sex worker. There will always be people who are taken advantage of by other people no matter what work or social standing. There are just many sex workers being trafficked as there are people in normal jobs being taken advantage of.

My entry into sex work is a long, sometimes funny and maybe kinky story. It is personal, has nothing to do with drugs, violence, poverty, hunger or debt. Going into detail here would seem more like advertisement and thats not what I want to explain. For sake of argument just say I am happy, normal and love sex, the rest can stay my private personal history.

Sex work for me, and the MANY personal sex work friends in two different foreign countries I know was never pimped or forced. Please don't tell my story, you have not lived it. You have not experienced it and like each person you have your own interpretations of things people have told you.

Just because girls like me come from poor (by american standards) families, or even no families, not all of us are stupid. We clearly see that being a domestic housekeeper for a rich family, has no future. Don't think that we don't understand the difference between buying foods for a days meal and buying foods for a weeks meals are not the same. Some of us know that if you live day to day there is no future. Being a sex worker provides a much higher income than entry level basic college degree in many times. Its a job. In some countries its legal job. In some countries its not legal but is overlooked.

I have choice. Just like every other sex worker I have in fact many choice. I could sit back and let someone control my business. I could sit back let someone control my finances. I could stand up and control both. Of course some sex workers have been taken advantage of. But if they want they have many opportunities to either avoid this or change this.

Being a provider enable me to create a possible future. It enable me to afford a small condo, very basic in my country. its not even as nice a condo as most hotels I provide in, but its mine and its solid and safe. It enable me to travel to other countries (on my own) to learn and interact in different culture. It also enable me to come to US. Now it enable me to travel back to my home and visit and return again. It enable me go more school and learn another culture. This is a freedom many here do not understand or even comprehend. Do you think all of these trafficked agency sex workers can not look out window and see that life is different and that its possible to have more? Do you think they are so stupid that they cant figure out how to go out on their own if they want?

I know personally many sex workers. They live at home with their families for the most part. Their families know what they do mostly, but the story is always a different hidden excuse. None of them were abused. None of them were raped as children or adults. All of them choose to provide as its a steady income far more than they normally can make. They support parents, brothers, sisters even their own families.

There will always be foreign sex workers who have a debt bondage. You make that term sound horrible. I can tell you that even as child we are taught about debt bondage. What people want to call debt bondage is in most countries call a loan. Some workers cannot afford to start as independents. And so some "pimp" says I can help you but it has a cost. Nobody forces her to accpet that "loan" and yes it must be paid back. Do you again think foreign sex workers so stupid they don't understand this? We know its a loan, we know it must be paid back. And we know its usually a stupid amount of payment. But for many its their only way to begin path to get from nothing to something.

Here is my point to shorten this. I am a foreign born and raised, also a sex worker. I was never forced, never abused and can stop anytime want if I choose to change the level of my lifestyle. I don't do drugs, and I don't steal. I don't give money to a pimp and have never been in "debt bondage". I budget my life style to help provide my future. Finally, I know MANY others just like me to a degree. What I don't know is anyone has a pimp or works in a bar that cant simply walk away. I have lived and continue to live this life. If you have not then you cant put or group all into an abused and trafficked cloud.

Am I proud that I sell my body and my time, not really. But I am proud that I bring a higher future than not and that I can send money to my family when they fall short. I am proud that I build a future and that while shy, I am a fun happy person to know. And I certainly not depressed or have negative thoughts because I am a sex worker.

Just my opinion. We are not all trafficked and we are not all abused any more than anyone else.

Bri, a Florida escort argues:
Debt bondage isn't horrible?? A loan? Denial is not a river in Egypt. That's all I say. Can't help those who don't want to help themselves. There is help for foreign women caught up in systems of prostitution in the USA. You can find them on the website.

I am not saying your wrong, in fact part of what you say is correct. There is help for those who want help. You are the perfect example, you are not trafficked. What make you think foreign providers cant be as free and smart and at least as successful as you?

What I am also saying is that MOST or MANY don't want help. They don't need help. And until you live the life of one such, you have no right to say we are ALL trafficked, that we are governed by debt bondage. That we are controlled and pimp out.

You ran away to NYC, wow. I was raised in Manila. Make NYC look like resort. 5 million more people in far less space. Every cop is corrupt. Everyone that can take advantage of person does for their own survival. The poor eat rats if they eat at all sometimes. You wont find stray cat in Manila, they are more tender than dog when in stew. Woman give birth at home for the most part, never see doctors. Some live 10-15 to a room day by day. Selling their things in the morning to buy food to eat only to buy them again that night after they make some money. I was not raised in those hardship, but many of my friends were. Some still are. Denial is not a river in Egypt? The Pasig is a river in Manila, every day they have to fish around raw sewage to get dead drug dealers and addicts out of the water. Come live our life, then tell us we are trafficked just because we are a provider. Tell us that the ONLY choice we can make to be a provider is to be trafficked?

When you are a foreign provider and come to the US as a foreign provider, then you can tell us how bad it is. You read the stories that get placed in the news and the interviews of people who have "escaped". Keep two things in mind. First, without horror story those organizations get no money for their administrators to get paid. And second, as I just recently said, 3 sides to every story. My side, your side and then the truth. I think there is truth in what we both say, even we don't completely agree.

Earlier in the thread Brie was attacking me for saying the trafficking was a sham of LE

I (Dave) said:
Totally untrue. You must have just read the initial propaganda from LE. The K girls (a small part of the site) were all here because they wanted to be here. The sensational headlines by LE have been shown as lies. Extensive report at

Bri says:
Look Dave, I've been around these women for 20 or so years. I know their stories. The stuff they don't tell you. You fuck them. You don't KNOW them, and they aren't going to tell you what's up. Most of these girls have pimps. Most of them have drug problems. The foreign women here are mostly trafficked in. They aren't going to tell you that, because they or their families will be killed. I know this. I've worked with them. I'm even taking a risk by saying this and so are most of the detectives and LE that go after them. These are huge networks of organized crime that will kill people if necessary to keep someone quiet. I know women who have escaped from them. I grown up in a big city and seen women and girls getting pimped ever since I was a runaway teen. The truth ISN'T pretty, but it is the truth. I wish these women did have control over their bodies and could do what they were comfortable with, but they don't. The average age a girl enters into prostitution is 13 or 14. As soon as I got off the bus at 15 in Port Authority in NYC, I was approached by more pimps that I could shake a stick at. Of course, you get the violent gorilla pimps dressed in cheesy suits, but most of them don't come off that way. They will offer to buy you a meal and "take care of" you. I know you are trying to support willing sex workers and I applaud you for that. But you need to know the truth. I've worked in agencies, brothels, strip clubs, massage parlours and as an independent. The sad story is always the same. Drugs, pimps, poverty and desperation. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Dave replies:
Yes in NYC there was a huge problem at least decades ago. I worked with Al Palmquist (minister and vice cop) in Minneapolis that ran a rescue (Midwest Challange) and wrote the book "The Minnesota Connection" and the movie. The selling of street gals from Minneapolis (Hennepin Ave) to NY City pimps and his group going to NY and rescuing them.

None of the Seattle bust, or the 100+ cases I follow in Superior Court have anything to do with real pimps and trafficking. It is an overhyped fantasy that all sexworkers have pimps etc. That may be the case with street work, but that is not what the boards are about.

So, yes it does happen but rare and mostly related to street work, not often with professional sex work these boards (unlike BP) are about.

BTW, I am not a client other than legal companionship in Canada. I have hosted the Phoenix Private list since 1998 with many escorts many of which I have been personal friends with not as a customer. Currently, have 350 gals in Phoenix sharing info (no cost) and none of them have pimps or are coerced.

This is where wise Phoenix escort from the Philippines jumps in which started this post.

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