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Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
03-27-2009, 03:28 PM
Post: #1
Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
With much kindness, caring, the Sheika asks: What are the main barriers that prevent the legalization-or decriminalization-of the sex trade?
And,,,
Would the legalization-or decriminalization-of prostitution help or hinder the business interests and personal goals of those involved in our community?

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Sheika Fatima
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03-27-2009, 08:31 PM
Post: #2
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
On Barriers:

The main barrier is the industry itself in my view.

The gay/lesbian/bi's have come out of their closet and been very good in organizing and getting the rights and gradually acceptance they deserve.

But other than SWOP which hurts the cause and a small group in CALF which had great plans and ideas, there have been no organized group. I have had on my site the decim coalition but without any financial or other support.

I believe it is clear that the public does not want money wasted going after in private consenting adult sex. The CA group did independent polling from a recognized polling organization that showed that.

My co-founder of Liberated Christians is active in a very conservative church. He told me after Sheriff Joe's big bust a few years ago even within that very anti-sex if not married Church, most considered it a waste of police resources to go after in private consenting adults.

SWOP did a great job in twice getting voter initiatives for decriminalization on the ballet in both Berkeley and San Francisco. But of course they were both soundly defeated because they included public nuisance street hookers which even in the two most liberal cities in America voters are not going to approve.

Much of the public is surprised when they learn that at least outcall prostitution is totally legal in almost all the world except the U.S. with no real negative effects. I would argue it benefits a society. But street hookers are not legal anywhere except in NZ since 2003 with now a huge negative public outcry about it. But private sexwork is just like any other job without the legal issues.

As folks know I have been one of the few outspoken in these issues from the Phoenix fight in 1999 against strip and swing clubs where I spoke at the public hearings, on radio talk shows etc to more recent events where I have been periodically in the media about decrim etc. But for professional reasons I need my real name kept private which other than once the media has respected.

Some escorts also want to keep it illegal since it keeps fees much higher than in most of the world where it is legal.

Sexwork needs our own "Stonewall" like when the Gays had enough and decided to FIGHT for their rights which they have done fairly successfully. But in sexwork in our weird culture full of sex but also when its so "dirty" outside of marriage, few people are willing to come out and fight and overcome the negative society issues like the gay/bi/lesbians have now done. They have gained over time a lot of favorable recognition in society. As have PRIVATE (not street hookers) around the world where its not such a big deal when its legal and you don't have the other crimes associated with it when its not legal.

We also have huge legal opportunities with the Lawrence vs Texas case, which at my suggestion to the attorney in the DC Madam case was of interest to the judge before the attorney change. Her criminal attorney went to the "she didn't know they had sex" defense which has always failed, instead of attacking the Constitutional issues of the law. In AZ the law is very vague and also could be attacked.

In a NY case I've written about lawyers for the sexwork defendants almost refused to use their argument that prostitution is sex for money. It is not the same as paying for time only and if sex happens between two consenting adults with no fee for the sex, it is not prostitution. The attorney's were literally laughing at such a defense. But the sexworker defendants pushed them to use it and THEY WON in a NY JURY trail using the argument.

So in conclusion there are these barriers:
1) No organized movement for PRIVATE consenting adult sexwork other than small CA group that has mostly given up without more broad support but had the right ideas.

2) Sexwork attitudes to keep it illegal so can get the higher "go to jail" risk premium in fees.

3) Arrested sexworkers not willing to fight the law which is mostly a money issue since would take lots of money to hire attorneys to launch a real defense. But as in NY and the limited attention from judges Lawrence vs Texas has received, it could change the entire industry if funds were raised to have the right attorneys to fight the cases.

4) The weird shame factor about sex in our culture so much more so than in Europe or most other cultures. Clients fear their families might find out, and sexworker fear their exposure to friends, future regular employment etc.

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03-27-2009, 08:32 PM
Post: #3
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
You ask: Would the legalization-or decriminalization-of prostitution help or hinder the business interests and personal goals of those involved in our community?

I do not favor "legalization" that is totally unneeded other than perhaps for brothels. Women should be in charge of their own businesses and I see no reason whatsoever for a Nev type legalization. Rather deciminization at least of outcall just like it is in almost all the world except the U.S.

I can not imagine how it couldn't help at least the honest business interests. Those that want to hide other illegal activities such as drugs, pimping, extortion would be hurt if it was decrim.

But having it more like in Canada which of course I know well, I can not see how it could hurt business other than perhaps agencies would make less money, but not necessarily.

Since I know it well I use Canada as an example. The typical cost say $200/hr. The agency pays the driver about $20, the agency makes $20-30 and the escort gets the rest.

No 50% going to agencies. BUT they may make just as much since they have a lot higher volumn since when you take away the legal issues you have zillions more customers.

Or like the strip clubs. Instead of like here they mostly have to growl for tips since the house gets most of the dance fees. In Ontario where full contact nude is totally legal (I love doing breast massage and get great reponse) the dancer pays a nightly stage fee of $20-$50 depending on the night.

Dances are long uncut songs at $20. No tips crap expected. She keeps ALL of the $20. But some clubs have close to 100 dancers a night and packed houses. So they make money on the dance fees but its far more fair to the dancer than the U.S. system.

To me this provides more honest business opportunities and personal goals of those in the Community vs in the U.S. where some agencies make millions they have to hide and launder breaking more laws vs everything being honest, legal and in my view far more fair.

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03-28-2009, 06:24 PM
Post: #4
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
There are several barriers.

1. Law enforcement likes having the enforce laws against commercial sex workers. It allows them to exploit women. They can extort free sexual favors from commercial sex workers in exchange from being left alone. It gives them something to do rather then go after more serious crimes. THey can point to commercial sex and say that it is tied to drugs rather than address the real causes of drug abuse.

2. Politicians like to have laws against prostitution to get votes from the "morally correct" elements of the community while "wink-wink" at the executives who pay for the upper-end CSWs.

3. The pimps and other exploiters of women know that decriminalization of commercial sex would allow the women to become more organized and obtain more police protection from them.

4. The lawyers do not want decriminalization - they make money from the current laws. THey would lose their fees if there were fewer arrests.

5. The people who build and operate jails do not want criminalization. That is now a multi-billion dollar business. Politicians who run on "tough law and order" platforms often have financial ties to those firms.

If commercial sex work was legalized the pimps and operators of the escort agencies and brothels would take a smaller cut of the women's earnings. Police would not be able to extort free sex or money from the women. There might be a increase in demand, and there might be an increase in women entering the work, if it lost it's social stigma. So the impact on price and on women's earnings is hard to say. My guess is that women's earnings might go up a bit and price might come down a bit, as the "middlemen" costs were reduced.
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03-28-2009, 07:23 PM
Post: #5
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
very good points

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04-13-2009, 01:46 PM
Post: #6
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
(03-27-2009 03:28 PM)Sheika Fatima Wrote:  With much kindness, caring, the Sheika asks: What are the main barriers that prevent the legalization-or decriminalization-of the sex trade?
And,,,
Would the legalization-or decriminalization-of prostitution help or hinder the business interests and personal goals of those involved in our community?

I LOVE YOU ALL,
Sheika Fatima
Sheika_fatima@yahoo.com
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10-23-2009, 04:47 PM
Post: #7
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
I agree with the following:
1.Politicians like to appear "morally correct"
2.No organized movement

I disagree with the following:
1.To exploit women
2.Lawyers/Sexworkers would lose money

I wouldnt hold much hope for anyone listening to any valid argument you propose. In the end it seems too difficult to get the majority to believe that you are right without saying "It be God's will that sex workers be legalised." Over 50% must have voted for bush ffs.
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10-25-2009, 08:49 AM (This post was last modified: 10-25-2009 08:50 AM by Jenna Purr.)
Post: #8
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
i think the laws are just fine the way that they are.

however, our corrupt law enforcement system uses the laws to punish society rather than protect it.
sheriff joe is a prime example of this. he takes more pride in punishing criminals than protecting citizens.

the role of law enforcement is to serve and to protect with integrity and dignity.
our legal system was not created for the purpose of punishment and using it for that purpose is the reason we have overcrowded prisons and court dockets.

our entire legal system has become grossly retarded by these sheriff joe-type mentalities.
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12-28-2009, 10:29 PM
Post: #9
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
We know that legalization means that the state imposes regulations under which women can be prostituted. Therefore, prostitution is not legalized. The sex trade can be acknowledging the violence , it means that it can cause abuse legal.

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12-30-2009, 05:06 AM
Post: #10
RE: Barriers that prevent the legalization of, etc.
Huh?

That is why we need decriminalization like in most of the world for in private consenting adults. Women in control of their own business and bodies. Works well in most of the world, had nothing what so ever to do with trafficking or "being prostituted" that is more common where illegal or illegal street hookers.

Promoting Intimacy and Positive Sexuality with honesty and integrity
Esalen massage - integrating with one another in love -"heartfelt touch"
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http://www.lovetouch.info
http://www.libchrist.com
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